Jesus Debate (round 2)

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by flyboy51

True. that was dumb to even post here, on my part. But really, debating the existance of God is pointless. Neither side is or will be correct because we simply will never know. There is NO way of knowing.

Debating politics, social issues, film, music etc all make sense because they all entail factual information to attempt to prove a point or persuade someone else. Unless you're debating on historical events and what they mean, theres no point in arguing about religion. Its faith and belief, something that soley rests on individual perspective and personal experience...its not debateable.....although, right now i seem to be engaging in debate against debating.

Welcome to the debate! Whether God exists is not pointless from my perspective, because I know He does. I do agree that it may seem like a waste of time from a non-theist perspective, because they must rely solely on the limits of empirical evidence, which in my opinion, will never prove God’s existence or be sufficient to sway opinion.

That being said, I always enjoy a challenge to my beliefs. Without it, I would not grow either in faith or intellect. Many of my faith choices are not the same as when I was younger. It was through debate and digging into the Word that I believe I have grown into a more enlightened individual.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by KILLADELFIA

Morons who take the wrong things literally and use their religion for personal benefit are what breed ill on society.

I agree that's one factor. Morons are not exclusive to religion. Hate takes many forms.

[KILLADELFIA]

Of course, but the religious morons, especially Chrisitans and Muslims really are a black eye to the rest.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by Escape

Just to clarify even though I won't be debating past this post, Catholics don't believe in faith alone. It's neither a universal Protestant belief either.

The only time the word 'alone' appears with the word faith is to reject such a doctrine by unifying it with 'good works'. A couple verses down from there, it even repeats it by saying works absent from faith is a dead faith.

James 2:24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone

James 2:26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.



Faith is Grace and just the beginning.
Good Works is Grace while persevering in our faith.
Grace cannot be earned. Only cooperated with.

Conclusion: We cannot earn our way into Heaven nor can we be saved by a faith (dead faith) that cuts itself off from good works done through the Grace of God.

Well said. Sorry you won't be joining us.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by KILLADELFIA

Of course, but the religious morons, especially Chrisitans and Muslims really are a black eye to the rest.

To the rest of what? Sounds like you're just trying to get a jab in.

[KILLADELFIA]

No. Not at all.

I'm saying that the reason Muslims and Christians are looked down on is the SMALL percentage of them who are morons. Which is sad for the rest of the members of the respective religions.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by bluetoon

Now that's something I don't agree with. I suppose the mentally handicapped have a place reserved in hell as well?

Most Christians hold to an age of accountability as Escape mentions, and it extends to the developmentally disabled.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by KILLADELFIA

No. Not at all.

I'm saying that the reason Muslims and Christians are looked down on is the SMALL percentage of them who are morons. Which is sad for the rest of the members of the respective religions.

Point taken.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by B0B

Not to really get into the debate though having grown up protestant the baptism thing is sort of an acceptance ritual. While it may not have any "saving" effect it is considered, at least among the churchgoers I know, to be fairly important in proving your faith in god and all that. Among my parents generation more specifically, I've heard stories where people were even hesitant to marry one another had one of them not been baptized.

That’s true, it’s not required for salvation, but Baptists such as myself place a great deal of importance on it -- in some cases, maybe too much. For example, when I was a kid my parents joined a Northern Baptist church, and didn’t let the congregation know we were Southern Baptist so they wouldn’t require us to get re-baptized for church membership.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by TheSwordEdge

My problem with Christianity is how they flaunt about how they became good people once they converted (as if non-religious people couldn't be!). But in total contrast to being a good person, Christians tend to be very bigoted, especially towards gay people. They've got no qualms with saying horrible things about them despite that they're more at risk for suicide than anyone else. As if this wasn't bad enough, their ideology is based off a primitive reward/punishment system. Essentially, they don't behave good because they want to - It's just a means of getting a good spot in the afterlife. But then again, Christianity plagiarizes Zoroastrianism, which introduced all of the major concepts it uses. Zoroastrianism was the first religion to include these ideas: Good vs Evil, Creator vs the Destroyer (the Devil) an afterlife, Messiah, an Apocalypse, and the resurrection of our bodies. Zoroastrianism predates Christianity by several centuries.

You should be a good person because it's the right thing to do, not because some God is telling you to. Unlike them, I don't need a god promising me rewards to aim to improve things; all I need is to see how bad things are right now to want to change it. My goals in life is to establish a refuge for animals without a home, and that's stemmed from my love for animals. I'd also like to setup a charity for needy women so they can get opportunites they never would've had. And none of these things are fueled by a belief in a god rewarding me. But even with that, Christians seem to be too depressed to care about anything that isn't about them. That's understandable - I'd be depressed if I got my viewpoints from a book that taught me to hate myself. But I'm above believing illogical fairy tales that are patent BS. All in all, Christianity is the biggest lie, and all it does is encourage fatalist thinking in its credulous followers

Again, this kind of broad-stroke, hate filled, disingenuous and mal-informed bigotry is just as much a problem as the religious far right you so fervently dislike.