What's on your mind right now?

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by Grindslave

cha.. I prefer live debate as well.. it's funny when people are faced with facts to answer too whilst holding a book with so many contradictions, logical fallicies, and outright false on geographic history, it should be embarassing to call it "truth".

Not me, I've always preferred an online forum to a live debate. I've never been any good at the latter -- the introvert in me, I suppose. I'd much rather gather my thoughts and provide decent references when debunking perceived contradictions and "logical" fallacies.

[B0B]

Originally Posted by Grindslave

cha.. I prefer live debate as well.. it's funny when people are faced with facts to answer too whilst holding a book with so many contradictions, logical fallicies, and outright false on geographic history, it should be embarassing to call it "truth".

not to mention, i get bill o'reilly answers constantly.. my favorite common question when someone finds out I'm a Secular Humanist is: "If you don't believe in god, what DO you believe in?" I like to give the common answer stolen from Daniel Dennett, "Tables... chairs..."

Well having the fundamentalist upbringing I had I have a lot of family members asking how I can "believe in nothing." Even though I've given multiple answers to that question. They've also been leaving small creationist literature from the 1950's in my room. My favourite was "Evolution: Fact or Fiction?" because as wrong as it turned out in retrospect, and the just plain old flaws# in presentation#2 it was still more progressive than a lot of fundamentalists today.

#The section on vestigial organs in particular, which kinda missed the point of what they are, but rather failed to provide any true proof for their substantial use, falling back on "hey, we don't know it has any real use but we'll assume god put it there for some reason." To which I can only really note that maybe he did it to cause us all the inordinate pain of appendicitis or getting our wisdom teeth removed.

#2Arguing that we can't go by appearance to judge if something evolved because appearances prove nothing, then in the next paragraph explaining how 2 particular animals in their example don't look alike so saying they evolved is wrong.

Originally Posted by wayno007

Not me, I've always preferred an online forum to a live debate. I've never been any good at the latter -- the introvert in me, I suppose. I'd much rather gather my thoughts and provide decent references when debunking perceived contradictions and "logical" fallacies.

While I can understand the uses of it, when it comes to this specific topic I've come to the conclusion that it gets no where and tends to serve only as a way to get people upset. I prefer face to face with the christian friends I have. If not to make them lose their faith, at least help them realize there are ways to interpret the bible that are far more sensible than the "oh god created everything in exactly 6 days as we understand days".

[TheSwordEdge]

There are no such thing as vestigial organs, however you're welcome to believe what you want. Sure you can live without an appendix, but the same thing for both eyes, your arms, legs, etc - They're not needed to stay alive, but you DO need them.

As for the appendix, it's crucial for having a strong immune system as it functions as a filter for infections, bodily poisons, etc - Rather than discount it, you'd do well to learn things for yourself and not parrot anyone.

Originally Posted by Grindslave

cha.. I prefer live debate as well.. it's funny when people are faced with facts to answer too whilst holding a book with so many contradictions, logical fallicies, and outright false on geographic history, it should be embarassing to call it "truth".

not to mention, i get bill o'reilly answers constantly.. my favorite common question when someone finds out I'm a Secular Humanist is: "If you don't believe in god, what DO you believe in?" I like to give the common answer stolen from Daniel Dennett, "Tables... chairs..."


AUGHHHHH. i hate waiting to go to work at 1 am.. Thanks Pharoh Dave. I got class at 8. dick.

Interesting, that's what I am.

[TheSwordEdge]

If you all are really Secular Humanists, then why don't you make more of an effort to learn science? It seems strange that certain people are embracing scientifically illiterate positions and still claiming to be Humanists... What some of you guys have promoted is as scientifically inept as the arguments Creationists make, so are you even Humanists?

[Grindslave]

Originally Posted by wayno007

Not me, I've always preferred an online forum to a live debate. I've never been any good at the latter -- the introvert in me, I suppose. I'd much rather gather my thoughts and provide decent references when debunking perceived contradictions and "logical" fallacies.

The jesus fish was stolen from dagon, a sea god.

soy posted from my phone, let me elaborate, i was not pissed off by the symbols themselves but more the notion that myths proven wrong can now be declared truth over fact. we can't prove theres no god, but we can prove the bible innacurate historically, scientifically, and even medically (leprosy cure anyone? LOL)

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by B0B

They've also been leaving small creationist literature from the 1950's in my room. My favourite was "Evolution: Fact or Fiction?" because as wrong as it turned out in retrospect, and the just plain old flaws# in presentation#2 it was still more progressive than a lot of fundamentalists today.

Sounds like the old Chick tracts my church used to hand out like candy back in the 70's. Unbelievable that the evolution ones are still in circulation!

Originally Posted by B0B

While I can understand the uses of it, when it comes to this specific topic I've come to the conclusion that it gets no where and tends to serve only as a way to get people upset. I prefer face to face with the christian friends I have. If not to make them lose their faith, at least help them realize there are ways to interpret the bible that are far more sensible than the "oh god created everything in exactly 6 days as we understand days".

I think I've encountered more folks getting upset in person that I have online. Some just get into the "no, I'm right, you're an idiot" mindset and are unwilling to actually have a level discussion on a topic. I do agree there are many circumstances where face-to-face is the best way to go about it, and a quick discussion to express views on fundamentalist or atheist misinformation is in order. Past a cursory discussion, I like to whip out my Bible and commentaries to go deeper, where I find it easier to continue the conversations from a keyboard. For example, I had a friend who was adamant that the Bible promoted slavery and child rape. At that point what I’m interested in are the scriptural references. She didn’t have that information in front of her (neither did I), so the conversation was useless other than to express an opinion. There’s a time and place for both.

Originally Posted by TheSwordEdge

If you all are really Secular Humanists, then why don't you make more of an effort to learn science? It seems strange that certain people are embracing scientifically illiterate positions and still claiming to be Humanists... What some of you guys have promoted is as scientifically inept as the arguments Creationists make, so are you even Humanists?

Eh?

I am this because it fits best what I believe in. I don't have to learn science to have my own morals, beliefs and ethics. I simply am what I am - I don't follow a 2 thousand year old book to tell me how to be. Get off your high horse.

[wayno007]

Originally Posted by Grindslave

The jesus fish was stolen from dagon, a sea god.

The Greeks, Romans, and pagans did indeed use such a symbol. By adopting it the early Christians didn't come under as much suspicion. Regardless of origins, it doesn't diminish its importance to Christians. To equate it to other gods is a distraction.

[Grindslave]

Originally Posted by TheSwordEdge

If you all are really Secular Humanists, then why don't you make more of an effort to learn science? It seems strange that certain people are embracing scientifically illiterate positions and still claiming to be Humanists... What some of you guys have promoted is as scientifically inept as the arguments Creationists make, so are you even Humanists?

two of us have mentioned being humanists and have not said a word about science. if you want to be a douchebag, at least have a foundation for what your talking about. if not, shut your mouth.. the diarrhea's getting everywhere.