The following is an interview exclusive to Movie Vault with Darren Ashton & Damon Gameau: Director and star of Thunderstruck

Roger Smith: First of all, congratulations!


Darren Ashton & Damon Gameau: Thank you.


Roger Smith: I wanted to ask about something I heard Darren say elsewhere. There’s a point in the film where Sonny is talking to Ben just after he spits the dummy. Sonny talks him around, and there was something that happened there that gave Darren goose pimples during the rushes. Damon, were you aware at the time that something like that was happening?

Damon Gameau: I don’t think I was. The irony of that was that I think Darren got goose pimples because that was such a difficult scene. Everything leading up to it was so complicated and I was having trouble with it. Trying not to make it too corny or too predictable. And then we actually shot it and logistically it was so difficult, quite windy and threatening rain, and we were backing up the road, we had to follow a steadicam, a very technical shot, while trying to be real.

Darren Ashton: And we must have rewritten that scene four times.

Damon Gameau: It was more of a relief that we finally got it out. And as an actor, I was self-critical, I couldn’t quite get it.

Darren Ashton: Yes, as an actor there’s a danger of beating yourself up. Then you can spiral down with it.

Damon Gameau: So it was a relief to get it out, I felt OK with it. Because it had been fraught with so many dangers, it emerged as a beautiful scene.

Darren Ashton: That scene, which begins with a telephone call and ends with Total Eclipse Of The Heart, is one of my favourite complete scenes in the film and that is why I refer to it as one of my happiest, most surprising scenes.

Damon Gameau: It is one of those rare moments in the middle of their trip where there is heart and respect, after they’ve been carrying on like idiots the whole way and suddenly these two men actually talk to each other going: “It’s OK…” It’s important in the film to give a bit of heart to it.

Roger Smith: When moments like that occur are you are aware at the time that you have done something special?

Damon Gameau: There are certainly moments where you are proud or more content, they’re the moments you don’t beat yourself up as much, they’re the moments where you go: “That was ok…”

Darren Ashton: Yes, I think the thing with actors is that they are so self critical, and I think sometimes the scenes they feel least comfortable with are some of the strongest scenes. I’ve had members of the cast who have had trouble with the scene and then when they’ve seen the edit they have been really happy. Other scenes, that they thought were fantastic, have not been as strong as they remembered them.
I think you’ve got to be really careful you don’t get caught up with how you are on the day because there are a whole lot of other things that can come into play. I remember with that particular scene, it looked like it was going to rain and we had another five scenes to shoot, we were an hour behind?

Damon Gameau: The energy of the crew was affected, it made them a bit snappy.

Darren Ashton: I can’t keep conflicts away from the cast, but I am not going to put extra pressure on the cast.

Roger Smith: I got the impression that you were like one of the boys and that you were a fun director to work with.

Darren Ashton: Yes, well, I felt we were making a comedy, we had a lot to do, we had the odds against us in time and budget, so you want to have a set which is a fun environment to work in. And when you are a director in a film like this you have to lead by example.

Damon Gameau: And it was like that on set, it was so much fun to do, we never stopped laughing. It could have been some hip cool Sydney director, but you need someone like Darren to make the film work, to put in the time, to bring out the dagginess in all of us, and it was that kind of environment, no ego anywhere on the set.

Darren Ashton: Yes, I always dislike it when I hear directors talking about a film and talking about how they created the whole film alone. I really admire Stephen Frears and I love his films. In High Fidelity he talks about how Jack Black turns up to the record shop and he does the whole routine with the tape that he’s got compiled. Stephen didn’t even know he was going to do that, Jack just turned up and did it, and that’s what makes Stephen a great director because he knew not to interfere, he knew that scene was great. I think a lot of times as director you’ve got to know when to back off.

Roger Smith: I’ve heard a lot of directors say that some of the best stuff happens when the scene is finished but the camera’s still rolling.

Darren Ashton: That’s something I wasn’t doing initially, because of my background in commercials and short films. We’d call cut and I’d cut. But I got a call from Martin (Connor), the editor, saying that with some of the scenes I needed to keep the cameras rolling for the actors to come down off the scene.

Damon Gameau: “Cut? and you’d still be digesting the scene.

Darren Ashton: That’s all right when you’re doing things that are 30 seconds or a minute long. I’d look the other way wouldn’t I?

Damon Gameau: We’d start cutting ourselves.

Roger Smith: Was this the film you were intending to do now?

Darren Ashton: No, I’d been working on two films. One, about wrestling, which I had been working on for ten years, is going to be our next film; it’s one I always knew I would have to make. The other one I’d been working on that I really like, that needs a lot more development, is called The Secret Society Of Married Men which is based on my theory that married men never tell single men what it is really all about. It was one of those films I really wanted to make, but I am not happy with the script at the moment. What you realize as you mature as a director are the flaws in a film. Jodi (Matterson) (producer) had seen The Extra, which was my Tropfest film (which came second in 1999) and gave Thunderstruck to me to read after we had been talking about working on something together. I ummed and ahhed about Thunderstruck for a while then I thought I’ve got to give it a go, I’ve got to take ownership over it, and over a period of about six months I decided I really wanted to do this. The more you invest in a project the more you want to do it. So you might start off hot and cold, but I took a month off to work on the script, then I worked 2 and a half weeks writing and after that draft I started to get into it.

Roger Smith: Were you a fan of AC/DC before this film?

Darren Ashton: I rediscovered AC/DC. I used to muck around singing the earlier stuff like Jailbreak and Highway to Hell, Shook Me All Night Long; it had the nostalgia aspect. A lot of the guys were into the more contemporary stuff.

Damon Gameau: We young guys grew up through all that Grunge phase, Seattle Sound. All those bands still quoted AC/DC as mentors, they were such a strong icon, everyone still thinks they’re Cool. They are such a respected band, no rock pretension, just rock ‘n?roll, that’s why there’s still a lot of bands around now still heavily influenced by them.

Darren Ashton: And I think that’s probably why a lot of people will relate to the film, AC/DC fans and non-AC/DC fans. The film’s unpretentious.

Damon Gameau: That’s right. It’s good fun.

Darren Ashton: It’s got a heart. And for those who are AC/DC fans there’s enough of AC/DC stuff in there and also it’s that pilgrimage that a lot of AC/DC fans can relate to. Some have said it’s something they’ve always wanted to do.

Damon Gameau: 40-year-old men that meant to do it since they were kids and thought that’s great. That was the thing I first thought on this film, the people who see this film don’t believe in “pretension? critics can say what they like but we know there is not a skerrick of pretension or ego in this film and if you can just sit back, have a good time watching it then that’s great, because you can’t tear this apart, it’s just honest rock ‘n?roll, it’s honest good fun.

Darren Ashton: Jodi Matterson the producer and I were really conscious, with this film, that it kept moving, not just because it was a road trip, but because I think some Australian films tend to slow down with one or two points in the actual storytelling and I knew that it had to be a film that kept going. The comedies that you are up against, the American comedies, the teen comedies, they’re unrelenting with their comedy, they just keep going from set piece to set piece and we were trying to avoid as many set pieces as we could but at the same time you have to put some in to satisfy the Road Trip sort of genre.
We had a session for a day where we got in comedy sketch writers, and you know what? We didn’t use one of their jokes; what we learnt was, and this is something I learnt generally on this, comedy should come from the character, not that it can’t come from plot, but ultimately it should come from character and no one knew the characters better than Shaun Angus, Jodi and I. They were suggesting things that the characters wouldn’t say or do. So it’s that collective kind of experience that makes you think if you listen to those things and learn from them you should get better at your next job, not necessarily that the film’s going to be better or the film’s going to be worse, but it’s really interesting going through those sort of processes.

Roger Smith: It’s great that you’re open enough to do that, to let all those jokes evolve. I really love that scene where the guys are singing Total Eclipse Of The Heart, even listening to it on the soundtrack, it’s like listening to boys in the bath or in the shower, there’s something really special about it.

Darren Ashton: Someone was saying it would be great to have some more scenes like that in the film. There are a couple in the film. Obviously there’s that one and when they play Long Way To The Top and I don’t think you want any more than that in the film, it would diminish the impact and power of those that are already there. I think with Total Eclipse of The Heart, the reason it works is that it’s liberating. You’ve been with these guys, you’ve heard some funny stuff, Sam’s been giving everyone, except Sonny, a hard time, being smug and being a bit of a smartarse and they arrive at this moment where we realize that there is a history there and then they let it go and move on. This is a glimpse as to why they are mates, there is something they share.

Damon Gameau: For all their meanness it’s kind of daggy and real.

Darren Ashton: The song is also a linking factor because Jim Steinman was writing for Meatloaf and for some serious bands, some rock n roll stuff, not just Bonnie Tyler. Molly’s song Hello, How are you? is a Vanda and Young song, from before they were AC/DC.

Roger Smith: So, Damon, coming from The Tracker to this was obviously a big change for you.

Damon Gameau: Well, it was a road movie, three men in a remote area, there’s a theme running in there somewhere. Ironically I learnt far more on this film then I did on The Tracker, and I thought The Tracker would be the definitive film for me, the defining moment in my life, as you do with your first film. That experience was amazing, but this film was far more rewarding in a lot of ways, because I had so much to learn. I didn’t have much dialogue in The Tracker, the script was only 12 pages long, you could just think the thoughts and that was enough, whereas with this there’s a lot of dialogue, and also that responsibility of being the leader of a group of boys, we all had leading roles.

Darren Ashton: I think it’s that classic thing though, you don’t realize until you do this film that every film has its valid reasons for being done. The Tracker was a fantastic film. I wasn’t convinced on Damon as lead, he auditioned for Sonny about six times, and Sam a couple of times, and back and forth and back and forth, and then Jodie got me The Tracker to watch. I put it on and I loved the simplicity and the beauty of it. I think probably the reason why you say you learnt more on this film Damon, is because with The Tracker you’ve got an auteur like Rolf de Heer who is a master. You really are in his hands, whereas in a film like Thunderstruck you have to rely on yourself and your co-stars too, purely logistically, not because the director’s not interested in you.

Damon Gameau: When I rocked up to The Tracker we hadn’t done a day of rehearsal, I had not even spoken to Rolf about the character, we hadn’t done a reading, when we got there they saddled me up on a horse and they were shooting. In my first shot I was lying on the ground and the crew and cameras were in my face and my heart was pounding, but I trusted Rolf knew what he was doing and it was going to be great. He chose me for a reason, so I put myself in his hands, whereas in this production it’s a collaborative effort.

Darren Ashton: Yes, I often wonder how you’d go on an American production where you very seldom hear of stars rehearsing, imagine if you have an ensemble and the lead was never there for rehearsals.

Roger Smith: Did you ever feel like jumping up and joining the boys on stage?

Darren Ashton: Oh, probably. A few people caught me out several times mouthing the lines to the songs. You can’t help but become involved in the emotional journeys of your actors, and I loved the characters in the film, every character. It’s one of the things you hear about, you hear writers saying, you’ve got to love your characters as you’re creating them, and it’s so true, and you can love the ones that are really shitty as well, they’re not nice people, you’ve got to love them, and I love Sam even though I’ve always thought he’s a bit of a dickhead, that’s part of the reason why we wrote that scene: “You are a dickhead, you’ve always been a dickhead.?

Damon Gameau: We just felt it had to be said. There’s a time that’s interesting for an actor where you go from having the director give you all the notes about the character, suddenly you are on equilibrium, and then you take over, you actually know more than the director.

Darren Ashton: And that’s why you do want your actors to be at a level where they can do that. I read an interview with Cher where she was talking about Mask, directed by Bogdanovich, and Bogdanovich said she was playing the part far too nastily, because she’s quite hard on her son, she hits him across the face. She fought Bogdanovich for a week and she was so right, because she wasn’t playing against the loving mother, she was a tough mum. You can’t be too arrogant as a director. You can talk about the characters in rehearsals and things like that, but Damon’s right. The actors, if they know their characters and are comfortable with their characters, should take over. Where you have to be able to step in is with what I call volume control. It’s when you think they may be overstepping the mark or under stepping the scene or there might be troubles within a scene.I think probably Ryan was the character, the actor that I had the most to say to because his character was so wild and the volume control was needed. Also, you’ve got four key actors and they’ve all got completely different methods of performance. You’ve got Damon who comes to your set ready to perform and he’s done character issues, assessment, character arc etc. You’ve got Steve Curry who’s a natural actor, who just has an instinct about what to do. Callan who likes rehearsals and likes to get into the feeling of the character on the day, and you’ve got Ryan who just goes for it, and who’s never done two takes the same, ever. You’ve got to be prepared for that.

What I found was that when you’re working with an ensemble you have to differentiate between when the actors have trouble with the character or when they are in trouble themselves, there’s a really big difference and sometimes you’ve got to be really strong, you’ve got to be a leader, you’ve got to take some action and if you falter or you don’t do something…If you talk to the actor, and you know the character better, you’ve got to know what you are saying, and as an actor or a director I don’t think you realize how much you need to know until there’s something you don’t know. If you work with a director and they can’t articulate what they are talking about, you think well, what the fuck are you talking about? What’s he going on about? Someone once told me when I was first starting off, I was just out of Uni, and I was shooting a scene and we put the crane up, then the rain was coming in, we pulled the crane down, put it up, and the rain was coming in, pull it down, no, leave it up. At the end of it the shower passed and we could’ve done the crane shot. Then this gaffer, this old guy, who I got on really well with, he just said to me: “Look, you know, with every director, it’s like being a general, you gotta lead, doesn’t matter if you make the wrong decision, as long as you make a decision.?And I think that’s the important thing.
It’s a bit like the last day of the shoot at the concert and the crowd were screaming and yelling and the guys couldn’t hear the playback speakers, and I couldn’t go to them and say: “It’s a disaster isn’t it??I had to say, ”Don’t worry about it, it’s going to be good, we’ve got more speakers coming in, we’ll sort it out.?and I’d be at the back saying: ”Can we get more speakers? Can we do this, can we do that?? I didn’t show them my panic. But then I thought: let’s ask 2,000 extras not to make a sound and at first they looked at me as if I was crazy, but then they did it, they were dedicated AC/DC fans and they didn’t make a sound while they were cheering, but looked just as enthusiastic.

It’s the sort of stuff you don’t get in drama school very often, you don’t have working directors and actors coming in. It would be really interesting to have a day that you and the three other boys could go in to NIDA and talk about how you worked on set, because often how you interpret or how you think it’s occurring can be different in practice. It’s a fascinating process working in an ensemble.

Roger Smith: And also fascinating with the melding together of four completely different actors, coming from completely different viewpoints.

Damon Gameau: And it works that way also, because that way you have four interesting energies as well.

Darren Ashton: You’ve really got to believe in your actors too. You’ve got to trust your actors. They want to do the best possible performance they can, so they are going to be asking questions and thinking about the character probably a lot more than you ever have. What’s really interesting is when you’ve written a character a certain way and you have your own interpretation of the scene, but they change the interpretation slightly - often it’s better.

Roger Smith: I wish you success with the film?

Darren Ashton: It connects with an audience, it’s whether or not we can get the audience to the cinemas?

Roger Smith: That’s one thing that annoys me personally: the way the Hollywood blockbuster crap comes in and thousands of people flock to it and a really good Australian film is neglected. I hope that you break through that.

Darren Ashton: We hope that the AC/DC hook will be enough and it’s a word of mouth grassroots film, that’s how it will survive, it’s not that we are on every billboard and every television station. When audiences come, they are not disappointed.

Damon Gameau: That’s right, they usually have a good time and leave feeling happy and that’s what we want.